Monday, March 19, 2007
Racism
"not much different than your earlier answer to me, Eugene."
This comment, Zek, would suggest that you have been thinking about your answer for a while, am I correct, Zek?
"by your own words then, you have nothing to complain about 'amerkans' killing your ancestors as the killers were after all only 'duped', hence not responsible. and they also did it to 'get ahead', escape poverty, find adventure, whatever."
Here, Zek, you used my race in order to make a point. You know this type of insult would indeed get a reaction out of me. You could have used a general term, but chose to use a RACE SPECIFIC term for my race specifically. That...IS RACISM!
"'Our' troops don't need to be 'understood', they need to stop being tools"
That is what I am trying to do with recruiters, trying to get them to stop being tools. Tom Hastings, a white man of peace, used to come down to the recruiting station and SCREAM in the faces of these men...and that never stopped them from pulling the trigger. In my opinion, as well, screaming in someone's face IS violence, and considering people like Tom enjoy considering themselves non-violent, I would suggest that you and serephim enjoy considering yourselves non-racist...while living on my land...in a white imperialist colonialist society...where white folks, such as you two, can come here and tell me what is and isn't racism.
You used the words, Zek, that I "have nothing to complain about American's killing [my] ancestors." Here, using the word "have," you are IMPOSING your white male colonialist imperialist viewpoint upon me. You "have" narrowed the scope of the arguement and used my race against me. I don't vote. I have been told numerous times by people that if I don't vote then I "have no right to complain about the government." Yet, these same people will tell me this is the land of freedom. So, I am free to live under conservative fascism, or liberal fascism. There are always plenty of imperialist colonialists ready to tell me how I can and cannot live.
"I have never seen anything that could ever be remotely construed as racist..."
Of course not. You are white and part of a white imperialist colonialist society. To explore institutionalized racism, you may just have to look at things in yourself that are not too pleasant.
"The behavior of Eugene and Ms. Loving was eerily similar to the type of behavior manifested by every right wing lug nut I've debated with. You know the drill: First they attempt to debate with you - next they get angry and start calling you names - then ad hominem attacks and suggestions of mental instability and/or drug use - finally, ominous threat of violence. I expect to hear this stuff from the likes of Hannity, Larsen and Coulter but not from progressives."
I find this comparison very interesting. Again, like Zek using my race to get a reaction out of me, you, too, are using the same type of tool, except this time it is comparing Lisa and I to Hannity, Larsen, and Coulter, which, there again, excuses you having to listen to what I am saying about yours and Zek's racist behavior.
"I've listed to Positively Revolting Friday mornings where they have commented on this very thing (I wonder if Lisa Loving was there on those mornings)."
I have listened to this show many a time, and have been married to Melodie. Melodie has made many institutionally racist and classist comments on that show and has been called on almost all of them by Ani.
"I would agree this statement could be hurtful but it was hardly racist."
Obviously, here, you have a SUPERIOR understanding of racism from you white colonialist imperialist viewpoint... Uhhh, yeah.
"It's clear Zek was using sarcasm to point out a contradiction in your belief system." serephim
"Our troops...need to stop being tools." Zek
Oddly, that IS what I've been saying. Hello! LISTEN WHITE FOLKS! I could get up and scream at recruiters using the same alleged peaceful methods of Tom Hastings, or I could talk with these men, get to know them, hand them books like "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, and get into their heads to hopefully get them to stop being tools. OK, great all knowing white colonialist imperialist serephim, where is the contradiction in that. Seems to me that Donovan's song says pretty much the same thing I've been saying and putting my ass out there on the line to try to achieve.
"False accusations of racism weaken legitimate claims of racism and play into the hands of true racist who benefit from anti-racists seem shrill and phony."
And here again, a racist white imperialist colonialist occupier of my land has come here to tell me what is and isn't racism. Key word, TELL...
Here are three things I have found interesting in our conversations that just haven't come up:
1) Both Zek and Serephim I assume are pseudonyms for your own protection. I put my name out there, my birth name. I have no reason to fear the colonialist powers that occupy my land.
2) Both Zek and Serephim have NOT engaged me in conversation about this issue. You both just tell me how it is...of course, that comes from you white imperialist colonialist viewpoints toward my indigenous darkie viewpoint.
3) No one has asked how I knew Zek and David were white. Think about that one, folks.
Concerning your point about "legitimate racism," Serrephim:
David Liberty, a former Ph.D. candidate in the field of archaeology and co-host of "Mitakuye Oyasin," told me something very interesting about the Kennewick Man case. Alleged scientists stated that the size and shape of the skull meant Kennewick Man was not Indian. David informed me that skull size and shape varies more within the group than within the groups. In other words, Yakama skulls would vary greater amongst Yakama's than amongst all other racial groups. You can put this same pattern over many things, which I have done with racism, abuse, sexism, etc. Racism has many many forms. Some insideous, or, as Rhonda pointed out, very subtle. The institutional racist that both Serephim and Zek have portrayed is one of the MOST annoying forms of racism. But to say it is illegitimate is, well, illegitimate. In other words, you don't want to deal with this form of racism. You all don't want to be considered racists, and therefore you all NARROW the scope of the argument instead of discussing racism. And why should you have to discuss racism? You all could just tell me what is and isn't racism to avoid all such discussion. All you have to do...is tell ME how it is...which...in my opinion...serephim...is more like Hannity, Coulter, and Larsen than ANY of the comments I have made.
Everyday I wake up, I wake up the occupying forces of imperialist colonialism on my land. That imperialist colonialism is motivated greatly by racism in part. The most annoying form of racism to me is institutionalized racism. Those things that racist white folks do that they claim are not racist. And, when folks of color like me bring that to their attention, my accusations can be superiorly dismissed with the wave of the mouth by calling my claims "illegitimate." This is NOT the first time this type of shit has happened to me. It happens to all people of color that I know of. Personally, I'm fucking tired of it. Like I pointed out, the KKK dude and the Skinhead dude would have NEVER said the shit Zek did to me, nor supported it, such as Serephim.
All that said, I would suggest, Zek and Serephim, that you read "Autobiography of a Blue-Eyed Devil," by Inga Muscio. It deals with the type of racism you two portray. The racism known as "Institutionalized Racism." Read it, and learn something before you come here and tell me what is and isn't racism. I LIVE THIS SHIT EVERY FUCKING DAY! You can walk away at anytime and never hear of it ever again, using your white privilege...of course.
This comment, Zek, would suggest that you have been thinking about your answer for a while, am I correct, Zek?
"by your own words then, you have nothing to complain about 'amerkans' killing your ancestors as the killers were after all only 'duped', hence not responsible. and they also did it to 'get ahead', escape poverty, find adventure, whatever."
Here, Zek, you used my race in order to make a point. You know this type of insult would indeed get a reaction out of me. You could have used a general term, but chose to use a RACE SPECIFIC term for my race specifically. That...IS RACISM!
"'Our' troops don't need to be 'understood', they need to stop being tools"
That is what I am trying to do with recruiters, trying to get them to stop being tools. Tom Hastings, a white man of peace, used to come down to the recruiting station and SCREAM in the faces of these men...and that never stopped them from pulling the trigger. In my opinion, as well, screaming in someone's face IS violence, and considering people like Tom enjoy considering themselves non-violent, I would suggest that you and serephim enjoy considering yourselves non-racist...while living on my land...in a white imperialist colonialist society...where white folks, such as you two, can come here and tell me what is and isn't racism.
You used the words, Zek, that I "have nothing to complain about American's killing [my] ancestors." Here, using the word "have," you are IMPOSING your white male colonialist imperialist viewpoint upon me. You "have" narrowed the scope of the arguement and used my race against me. I don't vote. I have been told numerous times by people that if I don't vote then I "have no right to complain about the government." Yet, these same people will tell me this is the land of freedom. So, I am free to live under conservative fascism, or liberal fascism. There are always plenty of imperialist colonialists ready to tell me how I can and cannot live.
"I have never seen anything that could ever be remotely construed as racist..."
Of course not. You are white and part of a white imperialist colonialist society. To explore institutionalized racism, you may just have to look at things in yourself that are not too pleasant.
"The behavior of Eugene and Ms. Loving was eerily similar to the type of behavior manifested by every right wing lug nut I've debated with. You know the drill: First they attempt to debate with you - next they get angry and start calling you names - then ad hominem attacks and suggestions of mental instability and/or drug use - finally, ominous threat of violence. I expect to hear this stuff from the likes of Hannity, Larsen and Coulter but not from progressives."
I find this comparison very interesting. Again, like Zek using my race to get a reaction out of me, you, too, are using the same type of tool, except this time it is comparing Lisa and I to Hannity, Larsen, and Coulter, which, there again, excuses you having to listen to what I am saying about yours and Zek's racist behavior.
"I've listed to Positively Revolting Friday mornings where they have commented on this very thing (I wonder if Lisa Loving was there on those mornings)."
I have listened to this show many a time, and have been married to Melodie. Melodie has made many institutionally racist and classist comments on that show and has been called on almost all of them by Ani.
"I would agree this statement could be hurtful but it was hardly racist."
Obviously, here, you have a SUPERIOR understanding of racism from you white colonialist imperialist viewpoint... Uhhh, yeah.
"It's clear Zek was using sarcasm to point out a contradiction in your belief system." serephim
"Our troops...need to stop being tools." Zek
Oddly, that IS what I've been saying. Hello! LISTEN WHITE FOLKS! I could get up and scream at recruiters using the same alleged peaceful methods of Tom Hastings, or I could talk with these men, get to know them, hand them books like "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, and get into their heads to hopefully get them to stop being tools. OK, great all knowing white colonialist imperialist serephim, where is the contradiction in that. Seems to me that Donovan's song says pretty much the same thing I've been saying and putting my ass out there on the line to try to achieve.
"False accusations of racism weaken legitimate claims of racism and play into the hands of true racist who benefit from anti-racists seem shrill and phony."
And here again, a racist white imperialist colonialist occupier of my land has come here to tell me what is and isn't racism. Key word, TELL...
Here are three things I have found interesting in our conversations that just haven't come up:
1) Both Zek and Serephim I assume are pseudonyms for your own protection. I put my name out there, my birth name. I have no reason to fear the colonialist powers that occupy my land.
2) Both Zek and Serephim have NOT engaged me in conversation about this issue. You both just tell me how it is...of course, that comes from you white imperialist colonialist viewpoints toward my indigenous darkie viewpoint.
3) No one has asked how I knew Zek and David were white. Think about that one, folks.
Concerning your point about "legitimate racism," Serrephim:
David Liberty, a former Ph.D. candidate in the field of archaeology and co-host of "Mitakuye Oyasin," told me something very interesting about the Kennewick Man case. Alleged scientists stated that the size and shape of the skull meant Kennewick Man was not Indian. David informed me that skull size and shape varies more within the group than within the groups. In other words, Yakama skulls would vary greater amongst Yakama's than amongst all other racial groups. You can put this same pattern over many things, which I have done with racism, abuse, sexism, etc. Racism has many many forms. Some insideous, or, as Rhonda pointed out, very subtle. The institutional racist that both Serephim and Zek have portrayed is one of the MOST annoying forms of racism. But to say it is illegitimate is, well, illegitimate. In other words, you don't want to deal with this form of racism. You all don't want to be considered racists, and therefore you all NARROW the scope of the argument instead of discussing racism. And why should you have to discuss racism? You all could just tell me what is and isn't racism to avoid all such discussion. All you have to do...is tell ME how it is...which...in my opinion...serephim...is more like Hannity, Coulter, and Larsen than ANY of the comments I have made.
Everyday I wake up, I wake up the occupying forces of imperialist colonialism on my land. That imperialist colonialism is motivated greatly by racism in part. The most annoying form of racism to me is institutionalized racism. Those things that racist white folks do that they claim are not racist. And, when folks of color like me bring that to their attention, my accusations can be superiorly dismissed with the wave of the mouth by calling my claims "illegitimate." This is NOT the first time this type of shit has happened to me. It happens to all people of color that I know of. Personally, I'm fucking tired of it. Like I pointed out, the KKK dude and the Skinhead dude would have NEVER said the shit Zek did to me, nor supported it, such as Serephim.
All that said, I would suggest, Zek and Serephim, that you read "Autobiography of a Blue-Eyed Devil," by Inga Muscio. It deals with the type of racism you two portray. The racism known as "Institutionalized Racism." Read it, and learn something before you come here and tell me what is and isn't racism. I LIVE THIS SHIT EVERY FUCKING DAY! You can walk away at anytime and never hear of it ever again, using your white privilege...of course.
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